Phoenix bans homeless encampments near schools and daycares. How the city plans to enforce the rule

The Phoenix City Council voted 8-0 Wednesday to ban homeless encampments near schools, daycares, shelters and city parks. This is an expansion of the ban on urban camping that could have a significant impact on people experiencing homelessness.

City officials say their goal is not to criminalize the homeless, but to direct people to shelter. But concerns remain that this will only move homeless people in and out of the criminal justice system.

Taylor Seely covered it for the Arizona Republic and is speaking to The Show.

Complete conversation

LAUREN GILGER: Thanks for coming back to The Show, Taylor.

TAYLOR SEELY: Thank you for.

GILGER: All right. So first give us the details of this ban. What exactly does this ban on urban camping prohibit?

SEELY: Well, as you mentioned, the city already had a ban on urban camping, but Wednesday's vote expanded that ban to include sleeping, cooking and camping near schools, daycares, shelters and parks. the city and more particularly within 500 feet of one of these locations. .

GILGER: ALL RIGHT. The council has therefore also relaxed the sanctions applicable to urban camping.

SEELY: Correct. It used to be considered a Class 1 misdemeanor. They lowered it to Class 3 and limited the fine to a maximum of $100 for the first offense. But other penalties for this class 3 misdemeanor include jail time, up to 30 days and up to a year of unsupervised probation, and then after the first offense, technically for a class 3 misdemeanor, the fine can go up to $500.

GILGER: So the members of the council [Wednesday] I really emphasized that this isn't about criminalizing homeless people like I said, but there were a lot of people who said that's exactly what's going to happen here. What, what did they have to say?

SEELY: Correct. I mean, there were a number of public speakers who came, many of whom said they had previously been homeless. And I think they just wanted to highlight to the city council their personal experience of how difficult it was for them to try to rest in a park and then be told, hey, you can't be here. So they moved somewhere else, tried to be told again, hey, you can't be here and they just asked, when is this cycle going to end? It does not work. It's not realistic for us and you know, shelters work.

But they also stressed the need for proper shelter. If someone has a mental health issue, they may need a shelter that has specific mental health programs or they have a dog with them, you know, and that dog is really like a lifeline for him. They want a shelter that can also house their dog.

GILGER: Is there any public space left with this expansion of the camping ban, Taylor, where a homeless person can sleep?

SEELY: You know, that's a great question. And that's a question I've been trying to get an answer from the city. I don't know, I don't know if they know or if they don't answer me yet. You know, the city's communications director told me this morning that answering that question is difficult, it's kind of like telling you what everything looks like, you know, what everything looks like, did- he says, answer this question, tell me to answer, tell me all the colors of earth that are not green. I don't know what that means, but they don't give me a clear answer to this question.

GILGER: Let's talk about law enforcement here. How will the municipal police enforce this? When will they be able to apply it? Are there any court rulings on whether or when the city is allowed to punish people for this?

SEELY: RIGHT. Like whether or not they have beds available in the shelters, right? Their court ruling right now is that they need to have appropriate accommodation space or alternative public space, you know, which again goes back to the question you asked about the others available public spaces, because we certainly know that the city has been trying for a very long time. It's time to build more shelters, because the number of homeless people exceeds the number of available shelters. So, I'm sorry, could you repeat?

GILGER: Well, tell us more about this court order and what law enforcement says about how and when they can enforce it.

SEELY: Yes, law enforcement says they will continue to rely on city services. The city therefore has its Homeless Solutions office. They're going to try to work with their care program to go to the homeless people first and say, hey, we want to help you, we want to give you a hand. You know, these are the programs that we have. Are you ready to participate? If so, you know, that will be the situation. If not, that's where police say they will use this order as a last resort enforcement mechanism. So at that point they'll say, OK, you're not complying, we're going to enforce this, we're going to cite you and at that point the case will go to a judge.

Now, one really important thing that the city council is emphasizing is they say we launched a community court, it launched in January of this year. And this court is an alternative program for homeless people who commit minor crimes that the city doesn't really consider worthy of criminalization. And, and they, and that's why they're saying this order is actually intended to get people to help because we're going to use that as a point of contact, we're going to involve law enforcement, but then we're going to actually try to get them into this community court where, rather than a traditional court sentence, they will have another opportunity to access services and hopefully end their chronic homelessness.

GILGER: Yeah. ALL RIGHT. So they're going to kind of use that to try to persuade people to accept the services. This only comes into effect in three months, right? And that's important because an upcoming decision from the U.S. Supreme Court will also address this idea.

SEELY: Yes, the Supreme Court heard the case City of Grants Pass v. Johnson and that case basically asks: Does criminalizing the homeless when there is no, you know, shelter or space available, is it unconstitutional? Does this constitute cruel and unusual punishment? And we should hear the court's decision, you know, later this summer. So part of the reason for the delay in this order is to see what comes out of it.

And the other reason is city officials say we need to educate the public about this ordinance and how it's going to play out. You know, the ordinance isn't really enforceable unless there's signage saying you can't sleep in camp or cook here. And so if the schools want, want the police to be able to enforce this order, they're going to have to work with the city to get these signs and all that, the kind of mechanism still needs to be worked out.

GILGER: ALL RIGHT. All right. We'll leave it there for now. Taylor Seeley covers this for the Arizona Republic. Taylor, thanks for coming back. Enjoy it.

SEELY: THANKS.

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